41 Responses to “Bonnie Dee On Intimacy and Sex”

1. Carrie Lofty Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 10:55 am

   1 I’m of two minds about this. I write what I like to read, generally a heavy dose of emotion and character where the sex extends from that, enhances that. On my better days, when I’m able to give my attention to a solidly crafted, heart-felt story, this is my preference. But last night I began reading The Dark Garden. I’m not exactly reading it because I like contemporaries. It’s about the sex. So for me, I have differing expectations depending on my goals for the evening. Indulge in a world of someone else’s imagination with heavy emotion and profound character studies? (The Laura Kinsale end of the spectrum.) Or indulge in a world where my husband reaps instant benefits when I take a breather? (Because sometimes it is chic porn.) I occasionally find books with considerable overlap, but not nearly as often as I’d like. I set my expectations accordingly.

2. Jaime Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 11:02 am

   2 It really depends on my mood as to whether or not I want the sex wham bam thank you ma’am or if I want the subtle play where I create the picture of what happened. I read so much, but I have to be there with the story, if that makes sense. So, I suppose technically I like it all, but the best stories for me are the ones that integrate both…hot, hot, hot, but there is still the emotional entanglement that there is more to it than just sex.

3. fiveandfour Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 11:12 am

   3 I find it’s not an either/or thing for me. I alternate between wanting these things separate so the story is about the relationship and personal growth of the characters, wanting a story which is all about the sex, and wanting a story that entertwines these elements. My husband and I were talking about this in a tangential way recently. He picked up something I was in the middle of, read the first dozen or so pages, and pronounced there was no way that story was about anything besides sex. I realized that there does seem to be a trend recently wherein the opening of a story is focused on the sex. Then it moves on to plot and character development, then comes back around to the sex. I hadn’t noticed until then that it seems like sex is being used as the ‘hook’ even for stories where in actuality the sex takes up maybe 20 pages in a book that’s approx. 300 pages long. It’s being ‘front loaded’, if you will, which definitely distorts the picture when someone is trying to get a feel for what the story’s going to be like by reading the first handful of pages. Anyway, like I said, that’s tangential to the main point of your topic. It’s just that this practice makes it harder than ever to separate sex from story, making me wonder if, even though I *say* I sometimes prefer it to be secondary, the reality is that sex is all I really want.

4. Meredith Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 11:21 am

   4 I think it’s getting tougher and tougher to find hot novels that are actually erotic–a lot of the e-books, especially, are becoming Tab A into Slot B and the sex is so unsexy that it is almost a turnoff. I recently read several Joey W. Hill novels, and I think when the sex is that non-vanilla, you have to have some kind of intense storyline for it to work. ( I did not particularly love the Vampire Queen’s Servant, but I thought the Ice Queen/Mirror of My Soul saga was fantastic in a sexual, emotionally intense way. But all books that stayed with me long after the final page was read.) When I want something sexy and easy, I read Emma Holly. Even though her novels have a great deal of very hot sex, it’s the kindness and respect between the characters–even in instances where the sex doesn’t lead to love–that makes it work. But from an e-book perspective–and since, Bonnie, that’s your genre, I think in order to be worthwhile it has to have something extra–that intense emotional connection. I’ve read a lot of e-books and the ones that stand out are the ones that are emotionally intense. (Bone Deep by you, Brokeback by Chris Owen, The Assignment by Evangeline Anderson, and a novel called Surrender–I can’t remember the author, but highly recc’d on Fictionwise and totally worth it.)

5. Teddy Pig Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 11:26 am

   5 Now see, I think it’s whatever the writers strength is that make or break the book. If you like to write a great sex scene, if you enjoy it and have fun with it, it is gonna show. I have read books where the story was cliche or just OK, the characters two dimensional and cartoon at best, but… the sex scenes… well dang! I have read wonderful romances where the characters were fascinating, the scenery brilliantly described, the motivations logical and mapped within an inch of their lives but each and every sex scene was a total horrendous sad flop. Either book can be great in my opinion but I tend to keep the sexy ones around longer. Hey, where’s The Warriors Gift that was a fun book?

6. Shannon Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 11:42 am

   6 I know that when I’m writing the characters (being the ages they are, which is around their teens) tend to throw themselves into bed and damn all the consequences, because they just want to have sex. But then they begin to get more serious and sex becomes less of a focus. (at least thats what I try to do. I have no idea how successful I am…) With reading, though, it depends strongly on what my expectations are going in. If I am expecting a frisky romp with page after page of amazingly written sex, then thats what I want to get. And if I dont, then even if the story is very good on other senses, the characters being amazingly worked with perfect plot and all of that, I will still be disappointed. On the same note, if I expect to be reading an emotionally driven story and its all about how to get MC1 into MC2s bed again, then even if the sex scenes are the best I’ve ever seen I’m going to be upset. As a whole, I seem to prefer more emotional stories that explore more than how many positions the characters can wiggle themselves into in the space of 200 pages. I may come off reading one of those initially pleased, but I rarely ever reread them, where I’ve reread Brokeback by Chris Own, Natural Law by Joey W. Hill, and books like that where it did go beyond the sex, because I liked the characters themselves enough to want to see them again, not what they could do in bed.

7. Tumperkin Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 11:49 am

   7 For me, there has to be some sex in a romance novel although the main criterion is not how explicit it is but how much it seems to me that the characters have a real sexual connection. I need the characters to have that to really believe in the HEA. I discovered this when I re-read a pile of Georgette Heyer novels recently. I loved them, but they were written in the 1930s and 1940s so the h/h barely kiss in them and when they do, there is no description of sexual passion. I realised that I had a real problem with this. When I got to the end of the novels, I felt as though two people I really liked had agreed to be friends forever, rather than lovers.

8. Teddy Pig Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 11:53 am

   8 As a gay man, I have to say Bareback by Chris Owen just did not work period and not because of the sex scenes which were not bad for the most part, they were fine. It was the relationship logic that motivated the drama that did not work for me. Probably because I am a gay man and have handled these issues. The drama came across fake for lots of little reasons I am sure most readers did not catch but they made the book a chore to finish for me.

9. Cherie J Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 11:56 am

   9 For me well developed characters and a plot are essential for a great story. The sex is just icing on the cake. I have read books that had no sex in them and loved them because the story was so well written and the characters so well developed they seemed real. If a story has tons of sex but the plot is a joke and the characters are cardboard I will feel cheated.

10. Meredith Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    10 Hey, Teddy, do you have any recc’s then for us?

11. Teddy Pig Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 12:54 pm

    11 I like all types of Sex, I mean Romance books… BDSM sex wise, I loved recently Master of Obsidian by Jamie Craig from Amber Allure. HOT vampire lovin! But… Natural Law by Joey W. Hill from Ellora’s Cave is on my keeper shelf as straight BDSM sex. Instead of Bareback by Chris Owen I would take you over and show you The Tin Star and it’s sequel The Broken H by J. L. Langley from Loose-Id. J.L. just writes some sweet characters if you ask me. And if you are into equal opportunity bisexual menage sex… The Courage To Love and Love Under Siege by Samantha Kane from Ellora’s Cave are raunchy rowdy regency books that are just fun fun fun.

12. Teddy Pig Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 1:00 pm

    12 Dang where did my post go? Oh well like I was saying… BDSM Romance wise Master of Obsidian by Jamie Craig Gay Vampire Lovin… from Amber Allure. Natural Law by Joey W. Hill is a solid straight BDSM Romance keeper for me. Gay Romance Instead of Bareback from Chris Owen I would show you The Tin Star and the sequel The Broken H by J. L. Langley from Loose-Id Menage Romance The Courage To Love and Love Under Siege from Samantha Kane from Ellora’s Cave were fun Regency raunchy.

13. catherine Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    13 It depends on my mood, sometimes I just want a “romp,” others I want deep, lasting relationships born of, or along with satisfying sex scenes. Luckily there’s enough variety out there to satisfy either craving.

14. Bonnie Dee Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    14 Hey, I had no idea Bam posted me today instead of tomorrow. It was gratifying to stop by and see all your replies. And thanks Bam for the rec of The Warrior’s Gift and Meredith for the rec of Bone Deep. Tumperkin, I feel ya on that Georgette Heyer. I read a Catherine Cookson recently that had such great emotional buildup between the leads and I waited so patiently for them to finally get together only to get one lousy page full of euphemisms. I was closed out by the Iron Curtain of Morality from being a part of the cumlination of their relationship! So annoying. Frontloading a sex scene has become de riguer (sp?) at some e-pubs in my understanding. The publishers feel without that hook readers will never pick up the book. A way I’ve found to get around giving a sex scene before I’m good and ready to do it is by having a masturbation fantasy for one or both of the leads. I have a story coming out in a Red Sage Secrets anthology next July (yay!) called Reflection of Beauty. It’s a contemporary Beauty and the Beast with a burn victim hero and an artist heroine. At any rate, I was asked prior to acceptance to amp up the sex earlier. With the major issues my guy was facing it would’ve been impossible to hook up the pair any sooner. But I had the hero masturbate while gazing at the heroine’s photo, and the heroine fantasize in her bathtub. I think doing this gives the reader a drink of milk without selling the whole cow. Ultimately I’m much more interested in foreplay and sexual tension relentlessly building than in any other part of a story. But the sex, when it’s finally reached had better be damn hot!

15. Amy S. Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 4:39 pm

    15 I like them both. I guess it depends on the mood I’m in which I read. Both have to have a great story though.

16. Teddy Pig Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 4:46 pm

    16 “this gives the reader a drink of milk without selling the whole cow” LOL! OK, I can handle masturbation scenes but… I prefer the preliminary clinch more. Both characters are there interacting getting hot and bothered but they only threaten to do something and never actually do it. The only thing that makes me cringe in real pain… Telephone sex scenes. I honestly have not read one good scene using this. It just… I can not even really explain it but the ones I have read were almost painfully awkward.

17. SweetNSourGirl Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

    17 I’ve read all of the Merry Gentry series by LKH, but I’ve gotta say, yes the sex is hot, but there’s too much, I don’t know what the hell is going on besides men banging Merry the entire freaking time. It’s annoying as hell, I hardly know the male leads, except for Rhys who is hysterical and awesome. Even then, LKH is too busy introducing other guys for Merry to bang. Way annoying, but if it’s “one of those days” yeah I’ll pick up an LKH novel. But more often than not (say 28 days out of 31) I want connection with characters. I want to care if they have an HEA and/or they have sex. If I giggle like a schoolgirl, before they have sex, it’s a good sign. Mostly what I want is for the couple to be in love with each other before they have sex. Hope I’m not too idealistic in that respect.

18. Bettie Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 5:19 pm

    18 Great post, Bonnie. As a reader, do you prefer an escape from daily life into pure, steamy sexuality or do you want to indulge in more of a character study with a side of sex? As you said, it is all about the story. When I look at my “keeper” novels, the common thread is not sex, or violence, or pure syrupy romanticism (though I’m a sucker for all of the above) but characters I like who do things for reasons I can understand. My number one pet peeve when it comes to love scenes is a set up where characters have to have sex for some sort of a McGuffin of a reason — to save the world, to make magical babies, to feed the ardeur raise some ma-agickal power. BS. I don’t care where (or even whether) the love scene is in the book. (Some of my favorite romance novels don’t have any sex at all). All I want is characters who behave like people. If an author can’t get her characters to a place where they have sex because they want to (whether for love, hate, lust, revenge, or just plain randiness–I don’t care), then she’s lost me. On the other hand, if I know I can count on an author to give me realistic characters in inventive settings and situations, then I’m hooked.

19. Bettie Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    19 My snarky strikethrough went away. ::sniffle::

20. bam Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 5:31 pm

    20 Author Comment My snarky strikethrough went away. ::sniffle:: sometimes it works, sometimes not so much.

21. Franziska Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 6:46 pm

    21 Ahh, good question and I have to agree with most of the answers. Yes, there are days I just want to read something hot and steamy. But mostly I keep the book in which the characters actually connect with more than body parts. They better have at least one good conversation or some bonding time with each other, so sex yes but it has to have some intimacy. And with starting out with the sex quite early in the story, I prefer some build up and tension. And it would be great if the author would show it to me, not just mention it in passing while the hero is ripping through clothes.

22. Lorelie Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 6:56 pm

    22 Funny this should be the topic of the day - a friend asked me today if I ever get to the point where the erotica books just don’t get me revved up. (Her husband’s been deployed for about 10 months now, so she’s overloaded.) I told her yeah and to take a break from them. Occasionally it can be necessary. But having said that, I personally can’t stand a complete fade to black. I need at least a hint about what the sex was like, even if it’s couched in euphamisms. The only thing that makes me cringe in real pain… Telephone sex scenes. Call Me, by Lena something had a pretty good one. I don’t think it lasted that long though, before they went live.

23. Eilonwy Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

    23 The comments here almost all seem to wind up saying “it depends”– whether it be on the reader’s mood, or on the writer’s strengths. I hate to be redundant, but alas, ’tis my answer, too. I have a small number of books that are pretty much *just* sex with a layer of plot, and that’s fine for the rare time in the mood for that. If one of those books doesn’t have an exceptionally hot scene, or at least a pinch of something *more*, (characterization, cleverness, etc.), then they’re never going to get read by me a second time. Hardcopies of such books end up in the “to be sold” pile. Fortunately, e-books don’t take up physical space. Most of the time what I want from a romance (and, for that matter, any work of fiction) is characterization. I want to really know (and possibly adore…) the characters, and truly believe in their interaction. I want my stomach to feel that drop when the writer has me believing, even if I’m reading this book for the third time, that the characters aren’t going to get out of this one. I want the anxiety of believing, despite this being a romance novel, that the Hero and Heroine really aren’t going to end up together. Okay, so a reaction that strong isn’t all that common, but when I find a book like that, it’s a keeper and a rereader. And those don’t always have sex in them at all, let alone a searingly hot scene. [Mind you, if I pick up what I know to be a romance novel and it *doesn’t* have a sex scene in it, or if it’s a few euphemisms followed by a curtain, I’m going to be exceptionally disappointed.] If we’re talking romance novels (even ones that are erotica and do exist mainly on the sex) I’d better be able to feel the heat between the two characters, because otherwise who cares about story *or* the sex scenes, no matter how well crafted otherwise?

24. thirstygirl Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 9:21 pm

    24 OK, for me it’s all about the build-up. I get a bit disappointed when characters jump into bed straight away and then decide it’s True Love. I don’t believe them. There are a couple of authors who can get away with that- they manage to get you to buy in to the instant attraction- but even then I will get disappointed if they decide that they Must Get Married on the basis of a couple of good shags. I like erotica and prefer when the authors don’t decide to slap a HEA on the end. If there is to be one, then I *need* there to be a build-up and scenes where how much the characters *like* each other - Chase is excellent at this.

25. thirstygirl Posted: Jul 17th, 2007 at 9:26 pm

    25 Oh yes and re Georgette Heyer: one of my favourite revealing moments is in The Convenient Marriage when right at the end the Hero kisses the Heroine passionately and she swoons and says “I didn’t know you could kiss like that.” It took me a few years to realise that the two of them had been having dull respectful marital relations and this was the moment when he decided she was clearly up for something more. [It helps if you are no longer 13 when you read them and can understand the coding. Things flew over my head for years. Like that Sherry and Kitten were going to have Heroic Rescue sex right at the end of Friday’s Child]

26. Tumperkin Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 2:03 am

    26 Thirstygirl - you’re right about Heyer of course - there is a bit more going on under the surface. I’m sure she had homosexual characters in mind when she write The Corinthian. The heroine is dressed up as a boy but also acts like a boy and the hero treats her like a boy. At the end, when they have a big clinch, a coach of people go past and are scandalised cos they think two men are kissing. It’s nicely cheeky considering it was written for a mainstream romance audience in the 1940s. But it’s like Bonnie said - in these older books you get one lousy page of euphimisims. That’s not enough for my modern-day sensibilities. I find myself worrying that the h/h just won’t gel in the sack. And if they don’t gel in the sack, where will they be five years from now? My belief in the HEA begins to crumble. Oh noes! Teddy Pig - so with you on the telephone sex. Always. Embarrassing. Hey Bam - maybe that would be a good contest. See if anyone could write a phone sex scene that doesn’t make you throw up in your mouth? That would be a challenge.

27. Bonnie Dee Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 6:14 am

    27 Okay, you’ve challenged me: “See if anyone could write a phone sex scene that doesn’t make you throw up in your mouth? That would be a challenge.” In my male ‘ho book, “Home Bound” the pair has phone sex once. I liked it. I thought it felt hot and I’d do it again. Of course, they had sexus interruptus before the heroine could finish, because the hero had to get back to his actual phone sex job. His supervisor was breathing down his neck. Why I didn’t have him pretend he was on the phone with a client I can’t remember. Can anyone tell me why I can’t get my gravatar to show? I did what Bam said, signed up, assigned one to my email, but nothing shows up here. Why? I have a really pretty “Opposites Attract” gravatar and I want it emblazoned on every post.

28. bam Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 6:17 am

    28 Author Comment Can anyone tell me why I can’t get my gravatar to show? I did what Bam said, signed up, assigned one to my email, but nothing shows up here. Why? I think it’s Gravatar’s fault. I changed mine 2 weeks ago and it’s still showing an Art Deco rendition of Joan Crawford, when it’s supposed to be a guy brooding in the shadows. heh.

29. Becky Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 6:27 am

    29 I’m of both mindsets. I like to escape sometimes into pure sexuality especially when I am having a particularly difficult time in an intimate relationship aka not getting any. Which seems to happen a lot especially since I seem to have a problem picking good upstanding guys who are going to treat me with respect. I always end up picking the guys who could give a damn about how I feel, they just want sex. Then there are other times that I like to find out about the characters in my books and what’s happening in their lives as well as their intimate details. It lets me delve into a completely different world totally instead of just the sexual aspect of that world.

30. Devon Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 10:56 am

    30 I usually enjoy sex with my romance, and I like it…earthy. No flowery language, just say what it is! But I’ve had a run of books lately where the sex seemed so dry (bad choice of words). It was like the authors were using some kind of hand book. “Insert X scene here.” Compounding the problem was that the characters had no interaction with each other apart from sexual encounters. They were physically apart from each other. Any relationship development took place in the characters’ heads. One scene they’re thinking, “I don’t know this person, but they make me hot,” the next, “I love this person,” with no encounters (of any kind) between the characters in between. It made me long for the good old days of sexual tension and witty banter, good old character development and romance. Throw us a bone at least. Say your characters had an offstage conversation that might explain the attraction. Definitely the books I like best have a bit of both. When the sex scenes say something about the characters and their developing feelings. PS–Bonnie, “Perfecting Amanda” sounds awesome. So does the deaf-mute stable hand (hope it gets picked up) and the Beauty and the Beast novella.

31. Arin Rhys Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 11:33 am

    31 When I’m reading a romance there has to be some tension and build-up before they have sex. That adds dimensions to the sex scenes, puts me into the story more, and makes me believe that the couple is going to have a HEA instead of breaking up in a few weeks when the heroine has her period and they realized that they have nothing in common besides the joy of interlocking body parts. I like sex scenes, but some authors just can’t write them even if the couple is doing it doggy style in a sex swing. It just isn’t sexy. No matter how big his wang is or how much her womb is clenching (oh, God, I hate when authors throw in the word womb in a sex scene). I like character and intimacy better, I think. I can read free fanfiction for some crazy hot sex scenes, but I can’t usually get the same quality romance that you can find in a book.

32. Rae Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 11:40 am

    32 Hey, Bonnie – You know what I like, you’ve critted my stuff. I like build-up– the sexual tension– and sometimes a little outside help with exterior tension, like saving the world. Sorry about that, Bettie, we paranormal authors often use this as a plot device to get total strangers to get it on. There isn’t always time to do the dating thing before getting to the sex when “end-times” are upon us and the two who can save the world need to fertilize an egg to combine their powers into the power of three. Plus, sex magick is powerful stuff. There are whole rows of books on this in the New Age sections of the bookstores (or, at least there is in the bookstores I frequent). Bone Deep is my fav of Bonnie’s, and I loved Ian in Measure of a Man. anti-heroes are cool. Rae

33. Bettie Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    33 Sorry about that, Bettie, we paranormal authors often use this as a plot device to get total strangers to get it on. Don’t worry bout it, Rae. Like most readers, my pet peeves go out the window if the story’s good and the characters’ actions make sense.

34. Teddy Pig Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 12:30 pm

    34 I like the werewolf mate reason. It works for me it’s like shorthand.

35. Ironeyes Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

    35 A book is like a xmas package. You know it looks nice on the outside and you wonder what is on the inside. The wait builds up suspense till the final moment of truth when it is opened up. Sex does sell, granted, how it is presented make a great deal of difference. Different people respond to the reading because of their back ground and life experiences. They will react and enjoy or not the pleasure of the reading. Frame of mind also will impact the reader and what he or she expects of the nitty gritty details. Even James Bond has toned it down due to the public and censors. Write what you will, the readers will be the judge good or bad. Sometimes eluding with out graphic detail is best as the mind will fill in the blanks or interpetation as requires. Steps off soap box, have fun with what you do as long as it injures no one.

36. Heather Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    36 I hadn’t heard of your books before reading this post, but then I’ve only recently started reading erotic romance. I have to say some of your offerings intrigue me, particularly “Blackberry Pie” (I don’t normally do historicals, but I like the sound of this one), “Awakening,” and “Measure of a Man.” Looks like I have a new author to add to my wish list for future book purchases.

37. April Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    37 I like a little of both. But I lean toward more of a build up and story line before the steamy scenes. I like to get in the head of the characters, know how they feel, experience that friction, watch them work things out. It makes the intimate experience all that more enjoyable. Just my opinion though.

38. Bonnie Dee Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 2:34 pm

    38 Long story short. “It depends on my mood” seems to be the general concensus. Well, I hope everyone finds plenty of whatever they’re looking for in their romance reading. It really is hard to tell if you’re buying what you hope you’re buying, even after checking out a blurb and excerpt. I’ve read a number of interesting premises and good writing that convinced me to buy, only to find out the book became very formulaic after a while or just didn’t pop my cork as much as I thought it would. If you haven’t read any of my books before and are unsure whether you want to spend $$$, try “Blackberry Pie.” As a Midsummer Night’s STeam short story it’s only $2.50 or something and it’s a very good indicator of the way I write. Also wanted to announce some happy news. My writing partner on “Finding Home”, Lauren Baker, received her print copies of the book today! She lives in England. I live in Michigan. How come hers arrived before mine? At any rate, “Finding Home” is now in print and can be purchased at Amazon, Borders and…jeez, I’m not even sure what bookstores you can order it through. I’d better find out.

39. Kristie(J) Posted: Jul 18th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    39 I LOOOOOVVVVEEEE the sounds of A Hearing Heart. I oh so hope someone contracts for it. I’ve only read one of your books (so far) but Bone Deep was so rich and unusual and a real keeper.

40. Erin Posted: Jul 20th, 2007 at 3:31 am

    40 I like sweet stories with plenty of sexual tension and then bam - the hot moment. Perfect romantic book bliss right there.

41. Darragha Posted: Jul 20th, 2007 at 9:33 am

    41 Tension, ah, sweet tension. Love it. I adore Bonnie Dee, too! Darr