My favourite ‘bad’ heroine is Bab from An Infamous Army. Gloriously spoiled and slutty. Fabulous in a crisis.

Ooh, Tumperkin. I just went and read the synopsis of an infamous army. It’s been years and years since I read Heyer. I should return read what I missed.

more geek heroines.

Ooh, amen, Kimberly! I can’t think of a single book with a truly geeky heroine. Any recommendations?

Nuh-uh. You don’t get to do this. *g* lol.

I do too get to do it! ::stamps foot & pouts:: Really! ::sniffle:: Hey, why is everyone laughing?
I do think “bad” is basically mild, but stretchy. It’s why I chose to use the term “bad” instead of “wicked” in the post title (Was going to do “In Praise of Wicked Women”). “Bad” is a word that can be used without insulting the person to whom you apply it, and it can be taken to mean “tough” or, if this is the 1980s, “cool”.
All the other words like “wicked,” and “sociopathic,” came with qualifiers for the simple fact that I don’t like characters who are bad for no reason. And in my book, anything that implies a character is naturally bad = bad for no reason.
I didn’t qualify “criminal” or “psychotic” ’cause then I really would be up hypocrite creek without a paddle instead of just motoring against the current, as I am now Arden from Like a Thief is psychotic–as I imagine anyone would have to be to kill people for a living. And since I didn’t want to cop out and be all, “but she only kills bad people” I had to make her psychotic.

Ok, “had to” is misleading. I saw that train of plot on the tracks, packed my bags and hoped aboard with a first class ticket.

Not finding the kind of heroine I liked/could identify with is what got me started reading gay novels. Two hunky men for the price of one and no wimpy chicks in sight; I loved/love it.

While I really like the tough-as-nails women, I’m with Kimberly and wouldn’t mind a geeky heroine for a change. (“I’d like to see, not just in romance, but in fiction in general, more geek heroines. You know, brainy, tech savvy, handy with the gadgets. . .and a bit of obsession with pop culture or social awkwardness would suit me fine as well.”)

It’s interesting what people think bad means. I tend to think of it as a rather mild word. We call our dogs bad and our children bad.

Nuh-uh. You don’t get to do this. *g* lol

You used words like wickedness, sociopathy, and criminal[ly] psychotic to define what you mean by a “bad” girl. Did you mean those words? If so, hold your ground! And in that case, I’ll stand by my statement that it would depend on the skill of the author.

If you don’t mean ‘em, we’re talking about a type of woman I think is showing up more often. Pretty kick ass, has sex ’cause she likes it, etc. The girl next door I always wanted to be. She’s been in urban fantasy and erotica to begin with and I think she’s leaking over into straight romance as well.

One of my favorite “heroines” is actually in a chick lit novel. “The Big Love” by Sarah Dunn.

Downright bad? Honestly, I’m not sure how I’d like that.

It’s interesting what people think bad means. I tend to think of it as a rather mild word. We call our dogs bad and our children bad. We talk about bad fats and bad news and bad weather but in every instance, there is always a worse word we can use to describe something worse than merely bad: evil, amoral, tragic, irredeemable, devastating.

…it will depend on what you mean by “bad” or moral ambiguity. I need to like my heroine to enjoy the story.

As stated in my manifesto–er–post, I don’t like bad for the sake of bad. But everyone does bad things. Sometimes, good things we do for good reasons have bad consequences for other people.

And as for moral ambiguity, I mean that a heroine’s actions could be good or bad depending on who’s looking at them. For example, Ember. She breaks the law, but she has her own moral code. Every “bad” action she takes occurs for what seems to her a “good” reason. Characters who love her would think of her as a good person because she is fierce in defending those she loves. But by the end of the tale, there are any number of people in her world who have just cause to hate her.

when I was selling WaSW. Poor thing. She thought Meg was so mean.

Carrie, admit it, you mentioned WaSW just to torture me didn’t you? (I have to wait a year–a whole year!–to read Carrie’s book.) The auto-reminder set on my calendar, you wicked woman. What more do you want from me?

When I wanted to write Cordelia circa early Buffy, I had to write Cordelia, mid-Angel.

Aww, Bonnie, I loved Cordelia circa early Buffy. Of course, I also adored her transition into a slightly more caring person–and I appreciated that she was never completely niced up (at least, not before I gave up watching Angel.

In the Buffy episode in which she was terribly injured physically after the emotional wound of seeing Willow and Xander kiss, my heart went out to her and I realized, “I don’t just find this character amusing, I actually feel for her.” I was in awe of Buffy’s writers because they made me sympathize with and care about a character I hadn’t even known I liked.

Speaking of TV, another character I really like(d) was Veronica Mars. She was a do-gooder who loved her friends and family fiercely, but she was also dishonest, suspicious, plagued by guilt, angry, jaded, occasionally spiteful, and frequently hamstrung by her own trust issues. I’m sure there are any number of other characters on that show who would have characterized Veronica as “bad”. And perhaps the only reason we, the viewers thought of her as “good” was because the story was told from her perspective, instead of someone else’s.

I really love characters like that. I wish there were more of them–male and female.